Trevor Shackles: Thursday Think Tank: The Duchene Narrative is Dead Thoughts on Matt Duchene, Christian Wolanin, DJ Smith, and more

They say any publicity is good publicity.

I had no idea who the Denver Bronco's were during that scene way back when, still got the gist of the joke.

As much as I love to make fun of the senaturds, Do not discount Tortarellas ability to focus a new group of players to cut the crap and work hard. CBJ created the perfect storm bringing in rental players for the one coach who knows how to maximize short term return by grinding guys up and spitting them out. How long a guy like Duchene could thrive in that environment long term is anyone's guess, but his current success should be taken as the exception, not the other way around.

As much as I love to make fun of the senaturds, Do not discount Tortarellas ability to focus a new group of players to cut the crap and work hard. CBJ created the perfect storm bringing in rental players for the one coach who knows how to maximize short term return by grinding guys up and spitting them out. How long a guy like Duchene could thrive in that environment long term is anyone's guess, but his current success should be taken as the exception, not the other way around.
- B-Wforever

his "current success"? the guy has produced everywhere, on every team he's been on. it's not his fault the teams around him have been complete poop, he's not responsible for terrible management and cheap ownership. to say that Duchene was the reason that Ottawa and Colorado sucked is beyond retarded, not even sure what word I would use.

the guy has been one of, if not the best player on every NHL team he's ever played for......the way he's playing now is not an "exception" it's who is as a player, he just FINALLY has a supporting cast around him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Qb2RJ4Cs0

I’ve always been a Duchene fan ever since he was drafted. He got a bit of a raw deal in Colorado and asked to move on. Players ask for trades all the time.

He was nothing but professional and a great player in Ottawa. He would have been a great centre piece for a rebuild but you can’t blame him for wanting to move on.

He’s produced playing with good players and crap players. That’s the mark of a great player. It’s great to see him have success in the playoffs.

He’s a top 30 NHL centre. Very close to “elite”. Would be a great fit on any team looking for a top line centre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Qb2RJ4Cs0
- FoppaForever

is this video supposed to prove that Duchene was the problem?

We are happy to have Duchene here in C-Bus as long as he will stay.
Some stars do have issues with being-a-cancer but it seems that even on his way out in Colorado the players had a respect for his work ethic.

I do worry about Torts riding players too hard. But in Columbus he has been Torts 2.0 with less harsh tactics and a bit more player friendly.

We are happy to have Duchene here in C-Bus as long as he will stay.
Some stars do have issues with being-a-cancer but it seems that even on his way out in Colorado the players had a respect for his work ethic.

I do worry about Torts riding players too hard. But in Columbus he has been Torts 2.0 with less harsh tactics and a bit more player friendly.
- Thomas Townsend

I tend to disagree with that.......he seems to pick 3-4 guys and constantly bash them, quite publically. he benched bobrovsky a lot this year, dragged duclair through the mud all season, it seems every other day he had a new whipping boy in the dressing room.

like Trevor said, that technique can produce results in the short term, but long term it rarely works out. that's kind of been his MO since coming into the league, he starts well, after a while the players tire of his antics and stop playing for him, and he's fired shortly after. the only place that wasn't what happened was in Vancouver, where there was no early success, it was a poop show from day one.

Francis can't be interviewed until June, I believe, as he's still part owner of the Hurricanes.

He'll be on the radar for a bunch of teams when he's finally able to be. Said there are some intriguing opportunities out there.

My guess is he joins the Leafs in an advisory role, though. He's tight with Dubas.

I tend to disagree with that.......he seems to pick 3-4 guys and constantly bash them, quite publically. he benched bobrovsky a lot this year, dragged duclair through the mud all season, it seems every other day he had a new whipping boy in the dressing room.

- sensarmy_11

He sounds like a Sens fan. We do like our whipping boys. Cody Ceci

He sounds like a Sens fan. We do like our whipping boys. Cody Ceci
- SensFan25

we do like our whipping boys. Ceci is a bad example though, he's one who's done everything in his power to deserve it........he's the worst, or at best 2nd worse, dman on this team.

there are other players in the past who really didn't deserve it, Spezza obviously jumps to mind who took way too much unwarranted criticism. Lalime is another.

The Senators need a Columbus-San Jose Cup Final.

If that results in happy players in Matt Duchene and Erik Karlsson to the point that both re-sign with their current teams it would mean two additional 1st Round picks in 2020 for Ottawa.

That is your best case scenario for Sens fans and their rebuild.

The Senators need a Columbus-San Jose Cup Final.

If that results in happy players in Matt Duchene and Erik Karlsson to the point that both re-sign with their current teams it would mean two additional 1st Round picks in 2020 for Ottawa.

That is your best case scenario for Sens fans and their rebuild.
- maaddmike

Best case would actually be SJ in the finals, CBJ losing in this round, and both players re-signing. That way we still get the extra 2 1sts and our pick this year is 17 rather than 28-31

there are other players in the past who really didn't deserve it, Spezza obviously jumps to mind who took way too much unwarranted criticism.
- sensarmy_11

Funny how some people still love to defend Spezza. Virtually nobody took issue with the likes of Alfredsson, Hossa, Chara, Vermette, Fisher, Phillips, Volchenkov, Turris, Brassard, Methot, or Phaneuf... or have even tried to attempt such a thing for the likes of Karlsson, Stone, or Duchene. Yet many still b1tch and whine to this day that a lot of people noticed that players like Spezza, Redden, and Havlat were butter-soft, defensively suspect, and frustratingly easy to play against. Not to mention that in the case of Spezza, there was significant concern that he would get a major long-term extension that would become a serious financial liability as he aged. And guess what? After just 2 years into that extension timeframe, his production has dropped down to <30pts... even with no major injuries to speak of.

There's no question that the Senators should have handled the trade better and gotten a more significant return, but they were 100% right to move on from him as a player. And he's done absolutely nothing in Dallas to make anyone who was critical of his game think anything different of him as a player.

Whipping boys bandwagons are beyond retarded.Its pretty juvenile to bash on specific players.Everyone knows that Ceci is not really good even if its clear as water that management (frank)ed up with him.

Constantly bashing a player in each and every thread is the same as the ones who bully a specific person in society...it show complete stupidity and terrible intelligence.

Funny how some people still love to defend Spezza. Virtually nobody took issue with the likes of Alfredsson, Hossa, Chara, Vermette, Fisher, Phillips, Volchenkov, Turris, Brassard, Methot, or Phaneuf... or have even tried to attempt such a thing for the likes of Karlsson, Stone, or Duchene. Yet many still b1tch and whine to this day that a lot of people noticed that players like Spezza, Redden, and Havlat were butter-soft, defensively suspect, and frustratingly easy to play against. Not to mention that in the case of Spezza, there was significant concern that he would get a major long-term extension that would become a serious financial liability as he aged. And guess what? After just 2 years into that extension timeframe, his production has dropped down to <30pts... even with no major injuries to speak of.

There's no question that the Senators should have handled the trade better and gotten a more significant return, but they were 100% right to move on from him as a player. And he's done absolutely nothing in Dallas to make anyone who was critical of his game think anything different of him as a player.
- khawk

I’m not debating the return or whether or not he should have been traded. What I’m saying is that he took a significantly unfair proportion of the blame here when the sens didn’t do well, despite doing nothing but produce.

Also, alfie was often and heavily criticized in the seasons leading up to that cup run.......and pretty much everyone else you mentioned was often thrown under the bus during those losses to the leafs in the early 00’s.

Whipping boys bandwagons are beyond retarded.Its pretty juvenile to bash on specific players.Everyone knows that Ceci is not really good even if its clear as water that management (frank)ed up with him.

Constantly bashing a player in each and every thread is the same as the ones who bully a specific person in society...it show complete stupidity and terrible intelligence.
- Laughinghyena666

That’s not a good comparison.

Bullying someone incessantly over something they can’t control, or over anything really, is horrible.

Criticizing a millionaire, who’s salary we indirectly pay, because he plays like poop pretty much every game, is our right. It’s stupid to criticize players who don’t deserve the criticism (ie. duchene, spezza) it’s an entirely different thing to criticize plugs who have no business in the NHL. At the end of the day, not many people blame Ceci......he sucks, not much he can do about it. People get mad at management for not moving on from him, and further, saying he’s a core piece, when everyone else on earth realizes how awful he is.

To compare Ceci criticism to bullying is just a terrible comparison.

Whipping boys bandwagons are beyond retarded.Its pretty juvenile to bash on specific players.Everyone knows that Ceci is not really good even if its clear as water that management (frank)ed up with him.

Constantly bashing a player in each and every thread is the same as the ones who bully a specific person in society...it show complete stupidity and terrible intelligence.
- Laughinghyena666

Good post. Never been a fan of Ceci. But, I have little patience with the toxic part of the fan base that needs a scape goat for their misery.

In ancient Israel, a village would gather and pray upon a goat and they would pass their sins (through prayer) unto the goat. The goat would be sent out into the desert wilderness as a sacrifice to God carrying a year's worth of sins from the villagers. The scape goat was a sacrifice for their sins, even though it was the goat that paid with its life.

The notion of Ceci as scapegoat is pretty good. It seems to me that all the sins of the Sens seem to be heaped on his back entirely disproportionate to the level of his responsibility for the total level of the failure.

I believe it is correct to identify the behaviour as bullying.

Good post. Never been a fan of Ceci. But, I have little patience with the toxic part of the fan base that needs a scape goat for their misery.

In ancient Israel, a village would gather and pray upon a goat and they would pass their sins (through prayer) unto the goat. The goat would be sent out into the desert wilderness as a sacrifice to God carrying a year's worth of sins from the villagers. The scape goat was a sacrifice for their sins, even though it was the goat that paid with its life.

The notion of Ceci as scapegoat is pretty good. It seems to me that all the sins of the Sens seem to be heaped on his back entirely disproportionate to the level of his responsibility for the total level of the failure.

I believe it is correct to identify the behaviour as bullying.
- spatso

You realize that’s like 98% of the fan base right? Cuz, you know, we watch him play

That’s not a good comparison.

Bullying someone incessantly over something they can’t control, or over anything really, is horrible.

Criticizing a millionaire, who’s salary we indirectly pay, because he plays like poop pretty much every game, is our right. It’s stupid to criticize players who don’t deserve the criticism (ie. duchene, spezza) it’s an entirely different thing to criticize plugs who have no business in the NHL. At the end of the day, not many people blame Ceci......he sucks, not much he can do about it. People get mad at management for not moving on from him, and further, saying he’s a core piece, when everyone else on earth realizes how awful he is.

To compare Ceci criticism to bullying is just a terrible comparison.
- sensarmy_11

Youre very wrong...it was a perfect comparison.If its over something a person can control or not does not matter.Constantly bashing a professional athlete or any human being(unless criminals in any form) is the damn same.Its repetitive,useless and boring.

Even in posts that he's not even a subject...ceci get bashed.We got it...he's not good but goddamn move on for god's sake!!!

Youre very wrong...it was a perfect comparison.If its over something a person can control or not does not matter.Constantly bashing a professional athlete or any human being(unless criminals in any form) is the damn same.Its repetitive,useless and boring.

Even in posts that he's not even a subject...ceci get bashed.We got it...he's not good but goddamn move on for god's sake!!!
- Laughinghyena666

No.

Caca peepee deserves it.

I’m not debating the return or whether or not he should have been traded. What I’m saying is that he took a significantly unfair proportion of the blame here when the sens didn’t do well, despite doing nothing but produce.
- sensarmy_11

This is the problem. Some people believe that so long as an offensive-minded player is producing points in the aggregate, there's no reason to criticize them. That's great for the back of a hockey card, but not so much when you're at a critical point of a meaningful game where limiting mistakes can be a lot more important than one more assist. I'm not saying Spezza should have been blocking 100 shots/year and leading the PK, but we're talking about a player that routinely struggled with fundamental positioning and back-checking responsibility. Some fans chose to look past that, others didn't so much.

Also, alfie was often and heavily criticized in the seasons leading up to that cup run.......and pretty much everyone else you mentioned was often thrown under the bus during those losses to the leafs in the early 00’s.
- sensarmy_11

That's nonsense. Alfredsson took a bit of heat because he was the captain of an under-performing playoff team, not because of his day-to-day performance or work ethic. A certain measure of responsibility is shouldered by any member of a team that's capable of more than it achieves. But nobody was routinely criticizing any of these players I mentioned for being lazy, soft, or conspicuously bad in their own zone. Spezza was gifted in ways that few players will ever be, but in a way it made his persistent deficiencies all the more irritating to watch.

You realize that’s like 98% of the fan base right? Cuz, you know, we watch him play
- sensarmy_11

At some point in time you come to realize that whiners, blamers and snivelers have one thing in common. They always need something to project their frustration and disappointment upon. It is always on something or someone else. I don't think if Ceci had sat out the entire season it would have changed outcomes in anyway. We have created a group think where a large number of fans believe the worst thing about the Senators is Cody Ceci. Hard to fathom that kind of thinking when we have Melnyk as an owner.

This is the problem. Some people believe that so long as an offensive-minded player is producing points in the aggregate, there's no reason to criticize them. That's great for the back of a hockey card, but not so much when you're at a critical point of a meaningful game where limiting mistakes can be a lot more important than a PP assist. I'm not saying Spezza should have been blocking 100 shots/year and leading the PK, but we're talking about a player that routinely struggled with fundamental positioning and back-checking responsibility.


That's nonsense. Alfredsson took a bit of heat because he was the captain of an under-performing playoff team, not because of his day-to-day performance or work ethic. A certain measure of responsibility is shouldered by any member of a team that's capable of more than it achevies. But nobody was routinely criticizing any of these players I mentioned for being lazy, soft, or conspicuously bad in their own zone. Spezza was gifted in ways that few players will ever be, but in a way it made his persistent deficiencies all the more irritating to watch.
- khawk

Tavares fits into the same pattern as Spezza. Great offensive skills, produces great numbers but entirely incapable of winning big when it really matters.